Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hey, fellow leaders, do you know what this bell is for?
It is our wake up call. The world is shifting at lightning speed. Technology is rewriting the rules.
Generations are colliding at exceptional speeds.
The values expectations are crashing and the AI revolution is unfolding that will flip our world upside down before we can even blink.
Right now, anxiety, burnout and uncertainty are at record highs in this storm. The question isn't if change will hit you, it's how prepared are you when it does. Will you be the leader who panics or the one who transforms press pressure into possibility?
But this is also the greatest opportunity in leadership history if you know how to lead with clarity, with courage, and with higher consciousness.
That's why we created the superconscious leader.
Not just to help you survive this chaos, but to help you rise above it and thrive, turning disruptions into into your greatest advantage. In the age of AI, you don't need to be superhuman. You just need to be superconscious.
So welcome to a superconscious leader. Your journey to the pinnacle of leadership starts here and starts now.
My guest today is Dr. Deepak Butra, a leadership coach, system thinker and a strategic advisor who bridges emotional intelligence with business growth. The author of Rise up your career reclaimed, Dr. Bhutra helps leaders and organizations align purpose, performance and peace. His philosophy redefines success with growth and integrity. Welcome to the show, Dr. Bhutra.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: My pleasure being. Thank you for having me. Dr. Dahal, welcome.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Welcome to the show.
So this segment explores the transition from fear driven leadership to service based influence. It focuses on how intention, energy and mindset shape sales and leadership outcomes. So Dr. Bhutra, how does fear based selling show up in teams and leaders?
[00:02:40] Speaker B: Fear based selling, that's such a powerful concept, right? Because the word fear itself tells you that the. This is one of those questions which. Fear based selling is pretty easy to determine actually. Dr. Dal, you just have to actually look at the behavior. You're going to suddenly see people scared of going into meetings. Because this review is going to highlight me, they're going to ask me all these questions. Fear based reactions are typically where you start using formulaic answers to where you are in your strategy or in your sales effort. But you never focus on the customer. And that's fear. The fear that if I do not bring this deal in, some harm will befall me and my reputation.
Whereas we are not thinking about the customer and using language which is customer centric. That for me is how the first manifestation of fear I see in the work I do walking into a room and listening to people talking about where they are in alignment to the company's objectives versus thinking about whether they have alignment with the customer's objectives. Those are the clear indications that a company is running on fear factor rather than on what does the customer want and how do we deliver this service and how do we give credit to that effort?
[00:03:44] Speaker C: Very true. Very well said, Dr. Butra.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: And we've all faced that, right? A sales guy is telling you this deal is only till tonight, right?
After today we will not be able to do this or you go to buy a car. And that's the entire strategy they use. And it really doesn't work with people like us.
[00:04:06] Speaker C: Right?
[00:04:08] Speaker B: Smell that.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: We smell that and we will not go for it. So moving from fear based selling to a different style is so important.
So Dr. Butra, why is operating from service more sustainable and effective than operating from this fear or stress model?
[00:04:27] Speaker B: So there are two elements to fear, right? There's one is how you fear your customer into buying from you, which I call the ultimate salesy mode. And I think that's what you're alluding to as well, right? This is where you are scared to actually go buy a car because you know you're going to get attacked and you're going to tell the guy I'm still shopping around and you're going to leave with a feeling that you know what, he just wanted to sell me something, even if it was a second hand car. The other fear that I'm typically talking about is also the fear of how you're being managed at work and when you're fearing the environment at work because you're being measured on outcomes, not necessarily on inputs. And that is extremely critical. Now you spoke about service.
Service for me is a higher order way of thinking, right, Dr. Dilal? For me, service is something that is coming from a point of purpose. And that's exactly what I always tell salespeople.
When you are trying to sell based on fear, buy now or regret forever, or when you are fearful that your performance is going to get judged by the fact that you didn't make a quota, then you're not doing service, you're not thinking about the customer. Purpose is what will the customer get out of this? How will I benefit the customer and the way that he is doing business.
When you're thinking about that purpose, then you're focused not on the fact that whether you made a commission check or not, but you're focused on whether that service that you deliver to the customer has happened is the customer delighted and customer delight makes you rich. That's the formula. Not whether the deal has to happen to make you rich, but it's the outcome. The outcome is satisfaction. And that's the difference between fear and service. Service is higher order. It drives you from an inside, whereas fear drives you from the outside. What will happen?
[00:05:58] Speaker C: Excellent point, Dr. Butra. This is so important and sometimes what we have to do is just let go. And even if it is something which.
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Is not getting you a sale, you.
[00:06:12] Speaker C: Just let it go and allow it to happen.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: Dr. Bhutra, can you tell us a.
[00:06:18] Speaker C: Story where shift from fear to service change results?
[00:06:22] Speaker B: When I was building my career, Dr. Lal, one of the things that I noticed was my level of comfort dealing with certain sales managers versus my level of discomfort working with some sales managers. And when I sat back and I actually started the analysis, I actually first thought about my own way of operating and whether that was conducive. Then I realized it's nothing to do with me. It was to do with them. The way that they were working with me, the way they were engaging with me. When they were engaging with me, the questions were always around, how are you feeling in this moment right now that we've lost this deal? Any other manager would say to you, well, you lost the deal. That's pretty bad. Shows that your performing is not at par, need to do something to change it deeper. And that's where the conversation changes. When you have a leader that's actually setting the right tone, your behavior takes a big change to it. So that's how I would approach that in terms of the magnitude of difference that a sales manager puts into how he leads his team, the type of questions he asks. The focus is on how are you feeling in the moment? How do you think we should approach this in the future? What have we learned from this? And the growth mindset that goes with it.
[00:07:26] Speaker C: Perfect. That is excellent. And we all have stories to tell on this. And you know, to me, Dr. Bhutra, fear has two meanings, right?
A false expectation appearing real.
Sometimes we make people, you know, create that situation where they may be fear the worst. And sometimes it's face everything and rise. Good leaders will always try to motivate people and give them that next level, you know, hope that way they're going to that, you know, rising up rather than moving downwards. So to me, it's a completely different way of leading.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: So what is that one mindset change.
[00:08:11] Speaker C: Someone can make to move from these.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: Two sides of fear, the negative fear.
[00:08:17] Speaker C: To the positive Fear or from the fear to service today, what would you do?
[00:08:23] Speaker B: I would, to be honest with you, I think first of all there's two aspects to it. One is what you say to yourself as a salesperson and two, how your sales leader communicates with you. And I want to focus on both elements very quickly. Dr. Dilad, when you are the one that's dealing through this, you need to differentiate between an impact that happened on your role versus an impact that happened to your ego. And when you disassociate those two, a world of difference occurs.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Right?
[00:08:49] Speaker B: From a sales manager point of view, the fun is when a sales manager sees that you're losing a deal or have lost a deal. His question is what have we learned from that and how are we going to reposition ourselves for greatness? What learning do you take from this, Deepak? And how would you change your behavior? That conversation forces the person to go away from his rumination and worry about losing a deal and the fact that there are repercussions to it, reputational harm, monetary harm. But thinking about how can I do better? Because this person in front of me is actually asking me the right question. He's asking me to think about the reaction that I'm going to have to it, but in a positive way. That's what I would say is very critical. Get your mindset right. Resilience is required in sales. You will get a no. Statistically, it's going to happen. It's like we will all die one day. The only control you and I have is how long can we sustain this by having the right habits around exercise or eating to prolong that delay. Right, but you could still get hit by a truck. But to me it's just systematic thought process and finding the great manager that actually starts focusing on your inputs rather than focusing on your outputs. And that's how I would differentiate it, sir.
[00:09:51] Speaker C: Excellent strategy for sales.
So Dr. Butra, how does a superconscious leader help someone sell? Smarter, not harder.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: First, super conscious is a loaded word, sir. And that's your area of expertise. So I'm going to be very cautious before I give my own definitions to it. But for me super consciousness means that one, the manager himself is self aware of his surrounding and his impact on his people. But then I also look at this being one of those spidey tingling effects, right? You also understand the people you're managing and what's going through their mind. And this is where you take a personal interest in someone's well being thought process and when they are down. You don't ask the typical questions. What are you going to do about it? What technique are you going to sharpen? How will you handle the objection? You actually ask them, how are you feeling at this point, in this moment and in this time? Those are the ways in which you turn this conversation around. And to me, an ultimate super conscious leader is one that manages not by the book or the ruler, finds the great balance between the carrot and the stick approach, but is actually making an effort to understand the person in front of him at a very individual level and then being aware of putting themselves in the shoes of that person and then saying that I'm conscious of myself and I can tell you how I would have approached it. I'm also conscious of your needs to get a positive feedback from me so that we can both work forward together. So for me, I looked at super consciousness as an approach, as a two way. It works from the leader down. It also works from the bottom up. And if you can find that perfect storm of both coming together, that's powerful. Extremely powerful.
[00:11:21] Speaker C: Very well said. Very well said. It is about knowing who you're talking to and customizing your message to them.
Very well said, Dr. Bhutra.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: So up next, we'll explore what happens when strategy looks perfect on paper but behavior does not follow.
So Dr. Butra will share how to bridge the gap between knowing something and doing something. So Dr. Butra will be right back. Do not go anywhere folks, please.
The second segment will be really a very interesting one which you do not want to miss.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
And we're back. Let's continue this powerful conversation.
Welcome back to a superconscious leader.
Want more inspiring conversations like this? Stay connected to a superconscious leader and all your Now Media TV favorites. Live or on demand anytime. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock non stop bilingual programming in English and in Spanish on the go catch the podcast at NowMedia TV.
From leadership and innovation to human potential. Now Media is streaming around the clock.
[00:12:54] Speaker C: Ready whenever you are.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: So welcome back. I am here with Dr. Deepak Butra. Now we're looking at a challenge every leader faces. The gap between strategy and behavior. Organizations often have brilliant plans, but they fail in the execution because people's habits and awareness haven't caught up to the plans. Dr. Butra, let's explore how a superconscious leadership closes that gap between knowing and doing.
[00:13:27] Speaker C: Please.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: So this segment reveals how aligning the personal behavior with strategic vision Transforms cultures and why mindfulness and emotional intelligence are key to organizational change.
So, Dr. Butra, why does behavior lag behind strategy in so many different organizations?
[00:13:51] Speaker B: To be honest with you, I'm going to say something that I said 25 years ago in college itself when we were going through a strategy course. I actually made a comment to the professor, and he looked at me and said to me, you're going to go far in life, buddy. And what I said was, I get the feeling the strategy is a vain concept to ensure survival.
And it's this vanity that's going to kill us because we are so busy thinking about how to make this PowerPoint look great. We are so focused on the message and the signal to the market because we want a certain share price. The gap is, you have a strategy. Now the question is, you have a strategy, but who is this strategy for? And this vanity is one of the reasons why behavior never catches up. Because your strategy is based upon what I call the ideal circumstance. But life is not the ideal circumstance. It's a storm. It's a milieu of mess. And what happens in the mess is the judgment that you need to make at that moment. And that's when you realize that the behavior that's required has become the wrong behavior or you're measuring the wrong things. Strategy forces you to measure what I call egotistical bragging numbers. Right behavior actually says you need to pick up the call and call someone 10 times a day and then get nine nos. That is very different from strategy. And I think that's what happens in the sales world, where your behavior is primed to listen to this pie in the sky stuff. But at the end of the day, your metrics are measured on how far did you get with the deal, how far is your customer in making a change to their world, and so on, so on. That's how I would differentiate why I sometimes get this gap between strategy and behavior. Dr. Dalal, excellent, excellent.
[00:15:15] Speaker A: Dr. Potra, I think you probably know Peter Drucker, and he mentioned something very interesting. He said, a culture eat strategy for breakfast.
What are your thoughts on that?
[00:15:28] Speaker B: I have so much belief in that. For me, I've always told people, you know, it's like substance over form.
I may have a legal contract that allows me to say nonsense about you, but should I be saying nonsense about you in public? The only reason for saying that is because I want to wind you up or I want to make a point. Right? We want to score against someone. Same logic, right? Same logic. In my opinion, you Know, you can have the world's best structure, but if the people are not aligned and if that structure is not helping you, it's not going to work. Structures are there to give you a scaffolding, to do something. It's that something. It's that moment which makes a big difference. And that's why I always tell people, if you go back and ask a founder, after five years, why were you successful? Their answer is always classic, textbook. Oh, because we had this strategy. Because we had that strategy. But when you actually replay all the interviews you've had with this person over the last five years, actually realize he never speaks about strategy. He speaks about living the moment. We just made a mess. We just learned from this. We have a product, it's very slow, people don't like it, we need to pivot, we need to pivot, we need to pivot. So ask yourself a simple question. If you're constantly pivoting, then where's the strategy?
That's how I would position this answer to you, sir. So, yes, structure is very well said.
[00:16:37] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: I always say, start with the culture.
[00:16:40] Speaker C: Move to strategy, and then execute with structure.
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Conduct, performance.
[00:16:45] Speaker C: Yes, very critical.
[00:16:47] Speaker B: I agree with you, sir.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: So, Dr. Putra, what steps help align.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: Daily actions with strategic calls? And do you have any stories or any kind of examples to share on that?
[00:17:01] Speaker B: I always tell sales leaders, in particular, leadership, that, gentlemen, your job is actually to simplify the complexity that you create at the top.
And the way to do that is by actually breaking it down so that it's palatable and understandable by the people who are enacting it on a daily basis.
What's the point of talking about strategy and platitudes, but no one at the ground level understands it. So the first thing is you break it down in metrics and activities that make sense to that person specifically, rather than living at the top. And for me, I can actually. I mean, I spent 11 years at HPA as an organization, and one of the fantastic things I learned there, which I really want to share with everyone, is the frameworks by how a vision is set and then how the vision is cascaded down the level of granularity. Where we go from these six words at the top that says being the best PC producer in the planet or something like that right now, how do you take that global ideal or that strategic focus, right? And being number one in whatever we do and blah, blah, blah, and convert it to the down level? That granularity happens because passionate managers now break it down. That message then becomes written in your language, in metrics that matter. And then you work those. And as you work those granular levers, you actually realize how it starts building up to the top. So this complexity of 50 word objectives then become tactics and tactics connect back to strategy. And if you can get that flow correct, it all is magic. It's magic. The guys at the bottom know exactly what's required of them on a day to day basis. And every element builds to the top.
[00:18:27] Speaker C: Excellent. Very well said, Dr. Potra.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: So could you share a story where changing someone's behavior may be at the.
[00:18:36] Speaker C: Lower level or even at the sea level transform the business results?
[00:18:42] Speaker B: I look at it this way. I used to work in sub Saharan Africa with one of the largest hardware vendors on the planet. Right. And one of the things that happened was that the guys were growing, Dr. Dalal, at 33 to 40% per annum. And when you're growing at that rate, you always realize that you're not hiring fast enough. So what worked yesterday will not work tomorrow. So that's where you need to bring in fluidity. You need to bring in a leadership style that actually says we know what worked last week, we don't know what may work next week. So let's ask ourselves what is that discontinuous or that incremental innovation that we need to do? What behaviors do we need to change to make sure that we maintain this trajectory that we are on? Rising water rises all. But falling water will also expose how bad you are if you don't get these fundamentals right. So the best way to do it is that, you know, build out structure as you scale, look at how you're scaling and then try to extrapolate from that the behaviors needed. You may need 20 people to do the job, but remember when you're scaling, you will always be behind. So you need to figure out how are we going to keep scaling and keep maximizing the number of people we have. Because investments always have a lag where you want them to be done.
[00:19:49] Speaker C: Very well said. And you know, behavior is such an important thing. And as you correctly pointed out, it's.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Chacha dynamic thing what made you successful.
[00:20:00] Speaker C: Yes, they can actually create the reverse results for you in future.
So leaders don't understand that that as the roles changes, as you know there.
[00:20:10] Speaker A: Is major upheaval happening.
[00:20:12] Speaker C: You've got to change your behavior and start every day as if a brand new day. And that can really bring so much more creativity and a new way of looking at things. And so you put it very well thank you very much, Dr. Vitra.
How could leaders change without micromanaging their people?
[00:20:36] Speaker B: This is really interesting. You know, let's go back to simple slogans that most likely our parents taught us when we were little, right? Teach a man how to fish rather than giving him the fish. When you have that servant mindset.
And one of the tips and tricks that my leaders used to tell me was that, Deepak, you're a very assertive, aggressive guy. When you work with people, you tend to take control. And one of the advice that was given to me that changed my life was that when you are talking to someone, never interrupt. Let them finish telling you where they are struggling. Hearing someone talk about their struggle is very cathartic to the person. It may be very boring to you because you already know the answer, but letting him say it makes a world of difference as a leader when he said it. Now the question is, how will you help him? And the reality is, and what they told me was, don't sit down, Deepak, because when I sit down, I take over the computer. So the simple advice was talk to the individual and understand from them their approach. Then try to do simulations and explain to them what your approach is and how you think and ask them whether they feel that that might be of any relevance or meaning to them. And then ask them to experiment and show you the outcome.
Show interest and don't wait for the final outcome. Tell them, let's meet interim twice before we have the final D day so that I can check whether you're on track or not. That shows immense psychological safety to the individual, because without psychological safety, you're always worried I'm going to do the work and then he's going to criticize the work. But if you're telling him that I'm going to actually help you make the work better and I'm going to invest extra time in your effort, the mindset changes dramatically, and that's the message I would give to leaders out there. Be precise in your instructions, but be supportive. Extreme criticism should only occur when you really feel that someone has intentionally made a mistake or look at intentionality. Goodness of heart, goodness of approach is always something that you need to consider in terms of mitigation of the way you act and behave against that person. That's, I would say, mindset shift. Leadership is servant leadership. It's servitude. It's not, I don't want to put it this way, that you're putting a jacket down on the floor and asking your person to walk over it. No, no, no, that's chivalry. We're not talking about chivalry. We're talking about holding people accountable, but with grace, with compassion.
[00:22:38] Speaker C: Very well, sir, thank you.
Dr. Butra, do you have any stories to tell us about how awareness and EQ help leaders shift cultures and habits?
[00:22:50] Speaker B: I'm going to be quick on this one because I'm very focused on watching behavior. So when I see a salesperson under stress, the best indication is that you see the salesperson and you realize he's not on zoom anymore. You look at the notes he puts into CRM and you realize that his notes are cryptic, they're not detailed the way they used to be.
To me, those are leading indicators of impending doom. And I know I'm sounding very dramatic here, but the reality is that at that point, this is what I would call quiet quitting. Someone has decided that they're not in the moment. Now people react to that and say, ah, but you know what? He's holding up my objectives. The first point of departure for me is, and this is what I've seen great managers who have given great stories actually walk up and say, hey, let's go out for a cup of coffee. I wanted to talk to you about some things and just see and check.
So my ex boss, he's a Frenchman and one of the things I learned from him was amazing, Dr. Dalal, which was, Deepak, tell me first how you are and how you're feeling and how things are going before we get into business. That's how he used to start his one on one. If I started talking about business, he would shut me down and he would say, no, I want to know how you're doing as a human being right now. What's bothering you? Tell me, what can I change for you? And that is how I used to focus, Dr. Dilal.
[00:23:59] Speaker C: Excellent. Very, very wise advice. So thank you, Dr. Putra.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: So, Dr. Putra, where can leaders connect.
[00:24:06] Speaker C: With you and learn more about your behavioral coaching programs or about your Rise up framework?
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Sir, I know this is going to sound funny, but I actually brought my Rise up framework with me. All 517 pages of it. The book is being released on the 6th of November. Dr. Dalal, it's right there. This is something that I put together and where to find me. Dr. Dalal, please. Very simple, sir. There, LinkedIn. Just go on LinkedIn and shout out the name Deepak Bhutra. I am the only one that actually got Deepak Bhutra in his name. There are six more, but they have Deepak Bhootra 666 Deepak Bhootra, 789 and so on. I am the guy based out of Spring, Texas, north of Houston. And I write a lot. I have people that subscribe to my work and I have a YouTube channel as well. I'm completely dedicated to the B2B sales function.
[00:24:51] Speaker C: Excellent. Excellent. Thank you very much, folks.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Do not go anywhere. Coming up next, what happens when business grows faster than your identity?
We'll explore how to keep your values and purpose strong during rapid expansion.
Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
And we're back. Let's continue this powerful conversation.
Welcome back to A super Conscious Leader. I'm here with Dr. Deepak Butra and in this segment we'll explore what happens when growth outpaces identity. Many organizations and leaders expand too quickly. New hires, goals, new revenue. But somewhere along the way, they lose touch with who they are.
Dr. Bhutra, let's talk about how to scale without losing your soul. So this segment will focus on maintaining integrity, culture and clarity during periods of rapid growth. And how awareness and EQ helps leaders stay grounded through this phase of expansion.
So, Dr. Bhutra, why do values often get lost as we scale too quickly?
[00:26:14] Speaker B: Because the way we measure scale is measuring it in numbers. Higher revenue, more profit. And when we are talking about more revenue, more profit, then we are blowing the horn of prosperity, right? We are blowing the horn of economic gain. And unfortunately, human beings are primed to prioritize economic gain. And in that process, we sometimes forget it's a very simple truth, right? If by lying and cheating I can grow my business and should I grow my business and it becomes a very delicate conversation. Now let's flip it. You're not lying or cheating. But now business is growing and you need to now push the envelope very hard. Pushing the envelope simply means that previously you had, let's say three deals in a quarter to do and now you have five, where do you get the capacity for the two to be done? That capacity comes by squeezing the juice out of people by saying, hey guys, we need to stretch here. We need to spend more hours. Many companies would rather get the revenue first and then get the cost later.
Which means that there's always this lag between when the investment should happen in terms of resources versus effort and work being going on. Another problem with growth is that growth is what I call. Dr. Dalal, that dopamine hit that you just crave. It's like social media, right? You see growth, you get excited, you get hyper and Then you say, look, growth may last, may not last. But hey, guess, because we're getting growth, I'm therefore forgiven. And this is where the problem starts the second you see that. And the best parallel I can draw for you, sir, is as follows. Salespeople are supposed to be paid a lot. Therefore, a sales leader once told me, because I pay someone a lot, therefore I own him. And therefore, Deepak, they should not complain about stress. That is the fundamental disjoint. You cannot have growth at the expense of an individual's identity or his emotions. And that's how I would position this very, very, very complex subject and topic.
[00:27:52] Speaker C: Very well put, Dr. Putra.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: And one thing which is very important.
[00:27:56] Speaker C: Is a lot of corporations create a mission and vision statement, but they will never write down the values. What connects everyone. And what I do whenever I'm leading a new team is it's very important we come up with at least 5 to 10 values which we all agree to.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: And that really helps us stay connected.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: And also when we do interviews for.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: New hires, we look at those values.
[00:28:22] Speaker C: And see if they connect with those.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: So I think those things are very easily forgotten.
[00:28:31] Speaker C: Now, one other question which comes up very often, Dr. Putra, is that how.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Do leaders preserve their identity and purpose.
[00:28:41] Speaker C: During these periods of massive expansion?
[00:28:45] Speaker B: By differentiating their metrics. What is it that you're trying to achieve?
So, and this is very important here, because I think you spoke about values. Let's talk about values for a second. For me, the way that I look at values and the way I coach my clients is very simple.
Five years from now, if I were to walk up to the people that have been touched by you and the work you do, how would they describe you?
And if those values do not tie in with what your perception of your values are, then you have a disjoint. Because the activities that you do today are going to be remembered in five years from now. So in five years from now, if you want to be remembered as a generous guy, as someone that help people grow, but at the same time, you are squeezing the juice out of people, as I said before, right, Dr. Dalal? And you are always focused on the bottom line. Where are we on the quota? How far off from the quota are we? If you cannot perform, I will replace you. When you operate on that mechanism, then I guarantee you, in five years, no one is going to remember you with the labels that you think you should be remembered by. So one trick I teach people is find out your brand. Find out the three labels you want and then always ask yourself, are your activities living up to that brand? Because if they aren't, then you're fooling yourself. Then it's not a brand. You're playing a game, you're running a facade. And I think that's how I would position a response to your question.
[00:29:56] Speaker C: Yes, you're a chameleon now, you know, that's very well said.
Could you share a story of company that scaled without losing their soul?
[00:30:10] Speaker B: Yes, I can actually. What, what is interesting about my story though is that this will disappoint you, Dr. Dilal. It's a company that actually ran out of business later and got acquired by a larger company. But one thing I wanted to mention is I worked for this company for seven years of my life and this is what I learned from them.
Growth will come, but growth will never come at the cost of your principles and your values. If you are an engineering led organization that will always produce products that deliver value to a customer, and if a customer is dissatisfied, you will return their money back to them with no questions asked.
That mindset is very noble, very different right now. At the end of the day, you also need to run a value system that delivers profits because you need to sustain an organization and a business. And I think that's where the dilemma lies, right? Because you need to figure out that path and that level of consciousness in which to decide what is good and what is then profitable is the balance that we typically lose out on. So my story is pretty simple. Find a value system that works, but at the same time also understand how do you sustain this value system? By having an economic model that supports it. An economic model that supports the right behaviors. And that's not as easy as I make it sound.
[00:31:16] Speaker C: No, that is so true. And Dr. Bhutra, I do a lot of work with AI and I'm really a proponent of AI. But I'm also worried about companies losing their soul when they give up control to AI. What are your thoughts on that?
[00:31:33] Speaker B: Oh, Dr. Dal, I wish we had like six hours to talk about it and maybe sit in a bar because.
[00:31:38] Speaker A: I totally agree with you. That is how I feel about this.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: AI is a fantastic topic.
First of all, everyone looks at AI as something that the difference this time is that when we got calculators and when we got Excel and when we got, let's say, data science or machine learning, these were either extremely simplistic tools.
No one was interested in how the calculator was built. But we knew that we can put a number here. Voila. Some result comes out. Now you have what I call democratization of knowledge and experience. You suddenly have people that have never coded before. Being able to now interrogate large models and get output from them. That is mind boggling. Right? Here's the reality though. A lot of people look at AI as a crutch to hobble their way to greatness, or they look at AI as the end itself, whereas it's only the means.
For me, the message to salespeople in general and to leadership is as follows. AI cannot work on a broken process or a broken behavior or a bad value system. AI will actually expose how bad your system is by scaling stupidity. And you need to stop scaling stupidity. I'm sorry to say that very crudely to the world out there. Here are the companies that are going to rock the world. These are companies that actually understand that they are not the human in the loop, they are the loop. Everyone talks about AI and then a human being in the loop, which means that AI is important and human being is subservient.
[00:32:53] Speaker C: Wrong.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: The human being is, I would call it the planet. And AI is the orbital satellite that runs around it. When you get that mindset right, and then you look at the way you integrate it and work with it, you're using it to get foresight, using it as a force multiplier. You're not using it to write emails to clients. You're not using it to write LinkedIn DMs to clients. That is what I call low hanging fruit. Now, what has happened is that you spoke about laziness. Right. With AI, My God, we are surrounded by laziness. Absolutely. In fact, I can tell you right now that Dr. Dalal, if you were to tell me that. Hey, Deepak, I want to speak to you tomorrow and I have these five questions for you. The first thing I'm going to go is actually go to AI and say, I would like to make Dr. Dall very proud of me. Help me figure out a talk track to this. And I think that's a judicious use of AI. The problem with AI is when you use it to give you ideas that were never yours and then you sit in a studio and try to make those ideas sound like yours, you're just going to expose yourself. AI works when you take your core and you amplify it with AI to look at your logic and your thought process and be the devil's advocate to your own ideation. That's how you grow with AI. I would argue that in the last one year I have achieved 5x terms of value that I give to my customers. That's extremely critical for me. And I'm now able to command a better hourly rate also. And I think that's how I would judge AI's use. Does it add more value? Does it make you more eloquent? That's how I would position it. Dr.
[00:34:17] Speaker C: This is such an important topic and you're right, we could continue talking on this for a very long time. So, so I have a very important question on companies which are non stop in a. I call it the white water change, where continuously there is change going on. And I actually work for a company like that.
[00:34:39] Speaker A: How does one, what practices can we.
[00:34:43] Speaker C: Have to anchor people's identity when things are constantly changing?
[00:34:48] Speaker B: So first of all, I think the reality is that change is a constant. That should be one of your value metrics and systems. Make it very clear to people that guys, we will innovate and we will innovate fast. We will fail fast. We will learn fast. You need to rise to the occasion. And here's how we're going to do it. We're going to do it by immense open concrete communications. We're going to learn from our mistakes and commit not to letting those mistakes happen. Our value system is going to be that of a flywheel. You build an inner system that actually allows you to throw ideas in and they get magnified, more growth, more learning for the people. Now to build that you need to have a very strict value system. And I think that's where the focus needs to be. And that's how I would answer that question, Dr. Dalal. It's a flywheel of opportunism. It's a flywheel of values. Build that and you will actually realize that all the other things are just noise. They come into the system. The system is flexible enough to absorb it. And the system has well defined grounded rules.
We don't play outside those rules, we play within those rules. And that's how you give people the courage to understand what change means. People don't have a problem with change. People have a problem with uncertainty. From that change, we will change from this building to the next. The uncertainty is I will lose all my equipment, I'll have to find the new toilets, I might get a new computer.
[00:36:04] Speaker C: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: What about the traffic from home? So you solve that problem. So they're not focused on the change anymore. They focus on alleviating the fear of the change that is hitting them.
That is a nuance that I feel a lot of companies don't get right. They are so talking about the future partly with AI. AI is going to change us. AI is going to allow me to get rid of six salespeople. And what language is that? Why can't AI allow you to position those six people to do something different? We are always having a language of cost reduction and that is the best way to destroy your value system. When you start looking at innovation as a way to get rid of people and once you start saying that those who are left do, they remain staying there because AI is going to have an onslaught that's going to be massive in any case.
[00:36:44] Speaker C: Right, Perfect. Thank you very much, Dr. Putra.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: Folks, when we come back, Dr. Putra and I will talk about a very important topic. What truly defines a leader's legacy, One that goes far beyond metrics, the KPIs, and also endures through impact.
Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
Dr. Bhutra, this was an amazing conversation. Where can our viewers find your book, rise up, your career Reclaimed, and also how can they learn more about your.
[00:37:18] Speaker C: Work on purposeful leadership?
[00:37:20] Speaker B: Sure. So Dr. Dalal, the book is on Amazon.com if you go and actually just search on my name, Deepak Bhutra, you're going to find this and the other books that I've authored besides that. I'm very active on LinkedIn. Anyone who goes on LinkedIn looks for Deepak Bhutra is going to find me there. I am literally living on LinkedIn. I am very prolific in terms of my thought process on B2B sales leadership. I write quite a lot on that. I also have a YouTube channel, but LinkedIn is a great way to reach out to me and would love to have a conversation with anyone who wants to discuss leadership, who wants to discuss what's happening in the world of sales and the onslaught of AI.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: Excellent, Dr. Putra, thank you very much for reminding us that the most powerful framework form of leadership isn't about control, it is about consciousness to our viewers. Remember this, leadership begins not with what you do, but who you are and how you make others feel.
Lead with awareness, serve with love, and your legacy will write itself.
I am Dr. Adeel Dalal and this has been a super conscious leader.
Remember, in the age of AI, you do not need to be superhuman, you just need to be super conscious.
